Paul VI presiding over the introductory ingress of the Council, flanked by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani (left), Cardinal Camerlengo Benedetto Aloisi Masella and Monsignor Enrico Dante (future Cardinal), Papal Master of Ceremonies (right), and two Papal gentlemen.
The Second Vatican Council declared in Lumen Gentium ch2, “15. For several reasons the Church recognizes that it is joined to those who, though baptized and so honored with the Christian name, do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve communion under the successor of St. Peter.”
The council continued in Unitatis Redintegratio: “3. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts, (19) which the Apostle strongly condemned. (20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church – for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church – whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church – do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, (21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. (22)”
This last sentence is false on several levels and sounds much like the fundamental heresy of the Protestant Revolt of the 16th century, once saved, always saved.
Being justified in baptism does not mean one automatically remains justified, nor does it mean one will always remain a member of Christ’s body. Even Scripture tells us so.
“If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth (John 15: 6).”
To be cast off as a branch, one must first be a member of the tree. This verse implies that a member of Christ can be cut off from Christ.
“See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again (Rom 11: 22).”
The context is in believing. Has every baptized individual remained believing in our day? None has fallen away and been cut off? That’s the implication of Vatican 2.
The next problem with Vatican 2’s declaration that “all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian” is the fact that if it were true, then no one, not even the Church, would have a right to call such persons heretics, schismatics, or apostates. They could only be called Christians in error or separated brethren.
The Vatican 2 religion is quite aware of this, because you might find the word heresy, schism, or apostasy in their language, but you’ll be hard-pressed to find them officially calling someone a heretic, schismatic, or apostate. If you did, it would only show their hypocrisy and/or ignorance of their own teaching.
Even the Vatican 2 saint Faustina claimed that Jesus identified Protestants as heretics and Eastern Orthodox as Schismatics. In St. Faustina’s Diary, she records Our Lord’s words in 1937, long before Vatican II, for the fifth day of the Divine Mercy Novena: “Today, bring to Me the souls of heretics and schismatics and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy.”
However, the Vatican 2 religion’s Official Novena for Congregational use declared:
It was decided to adopt the designation “separated brethren” in place of heretics and schismatics because of Vatican II’s unambiguous designation concerning the relationship of Christians not in communion with the Apostolic See of Rome in the Body of Christ. The continuous and consistent use of that designation by every Pope since the Council reaffirms that decision.
However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation, those who at present are born into these communities, and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers.For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.,span>
Apparently, the Vatican 2 religion didn’t think Our Lord knew how improper it was to call baptized non-Catholics heretics and schismatics, since they have a right to be called Christian.
True popes have been abundantly clear that only Catholics are Christians.
Pope Pius XII declared: “To be Christian one must be Roman. One must recognize the oneness of Christ’s Church that is governed by one successor of the Prince of the Apostles who is the Bishop of Rome, Christ’s Vicar on earth” (Allocution to the Irish pilgrims of October 8, 1957).
Pope Leo XIII declared in Satis Cognitum, “5 So the Christian is a Catholic as long as he lives in the body: cut off from it he becomes a heretic – the life of the spirit follows not the amputated member.”
The implication of the Vatican 2 teaching is that the Church was guilty of prohibiting a God-given right of certain individuals to be called Christian, which necessarily means the Church was evil. It also means the Church has been wrong for years.
Vatican 2 is good at accusing the Catholic Church of being evil for prohibiting God-given rights to individuals. It also taught in Dignitatis Humanae that men have a God-given civil right to give witness to their faith publicly in speech and writing without hindrance. [1]
Again, the implication is that the Church was guilty of prohibiting this right to Muslims at the Council of Vienne in 1312. [2] It also means that Martin Luther was right “That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit” which was condemned by in Bull Exsurge Domine, June 15, 1520 by Pope Leo X. Not only would it be against the will of the Spirit to burn them, but to call them heretics to begin with. All have a right to be called Christian.
To follow Vatican 2 is to reject the Catholic Faith as it was believed before the council. In other words, Vatican 2 is taking its queues from the Protestant Revolt with its own revolution. The Church was wrong and we’re going to set it right.
So the next time a pseudo-Catholic calls you a heretic, tell them their magisterium tells you we have a right to be called Christian. Get with your program or get out of your religion.
Footnotes
[1] Dignitatis Humanae # 4: “In addition, religious communities are entitled to teach and give witness to their faith publicly in speech and writing without hindrance.”
[2] Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, 1311-1312: “It is an insult to the holy nameand a disgrace to the Christian faith that in certain parts of the world subject to Christian princes where Saracens (i.e., The followers of Islam, also called Muslims) live, sometimes apart, sometimes intermingled with Christians, the Saracen priests, commonly called Zabazala, in their temples or mosques, in which the Saracens meet to adore the infidel Mahomet, loudly invoke and extol his name each day at certain hours from a high place… This brings disrepute on our faith and gives great scandal to the faithful. These practices cannot be tolerated without displeasing the divine maje sty. We therefore, with the sacred council’s approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in Christian lands. We enjoin on Catholic princes, one and all. They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet… Those who presume to act otherwise are to be so chastised by the princes for their irreverence, that others may be deterred from such boldness.”
Speray's Catholicism in a Nutshell 
To be in “imperfect communion” would be like being half alive or half dead. We are alive or dead. Protestants and schismatics are not in communion with the Catholic Church, that’s it that’s all.
Ask a Protestant what church Christ founded and they will tell you … the Christian Church. And, they are members of that church Christ found. Two problems for them…they do not know that their Christian church was renamed the Catholic church in the very early centuries. Many Protestant sects believe Constantine found the Catholic church but do not consider what religion the 30 some popes before him belonged to. Other Protestants simply ignore the fact Christ found only one church, which none of the 25000+ religions in the world today belong. Sedes have generally stayed true to the pre VATII church while the Novus Ordo are the ones who drifted away with all the crap of VATII religion.
You have to feel sorry for all those separated brethren who can’t agree on many of the New Covenant issues revealed and taught by Christ. VatII has made them feel secure in knowing they are all saved just the same, being ‘Christian’ ya know!
It seems that Steven Speray is more traditional than the same popes he cites.
I’m wondering whether you even took the time to investigate the phrase separated brethren.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/10/separated-brethren-term-before-vatican-ii-1962-1965.html
The issue is not about what you may call baptized non-Catholics using conventional language. The issue is that Vatican 2 declared they have a RIGHT to be called Christian. Apparently, you can’t comprehend what you read, because if you could, you would not have made this idiotic comment. You are through. All further comments from you will be sent to span.
Every Baptized Infant becomes a Member of the Church, the Body of Christ. Once one is a member, one doesn’t cease to be a Christian except by (1) mortal sin, or at least (2) ecclesiastical law. One who has not committed the mortal sin of formal heresy (material heresy is not a subjective sin) remains a Christian. Ecclesiastical laws that decree otherwise have been changed and repealed.
SPERAY REPLIES: The Christian name is an external forum issue. Those living outside the Catholic Church don’t have a right to the Christian name. They cease to be part of the BODY (external forum) of the Church at the age of reason. Notice that the quote says “ALL who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian.” TOTALLY FALSE as I explained in the article. You seem not to comprehend what you read because you’re not dealing with the issue at all. But notice that you have already rejected what Vatican 2 said. They say all are members of the Body and you just stated that not all are members and that mortal sin and law separates.
You quote Our Lord’s Words to one Saintly Mystic, Maria Faustina. St. Maria Faustina obeyed the Church and would accepted Her decision. But Our Lord also spoke to another Saintly Mystic, Maria Valtorta. Pope Pius XII gave a verbal Imprimatur to her work in 1948; after temporary confusion in 1959, the second edition of the Poem was approved by the Holy Office for publication in 1961. All this and more is documented in Steven Austen’s PDF: http://www.bardstown.com/~brchrys/Summa.pdf St. Padre Pio also praised it.
SPERAY REPLIES: The issue is a right to the Christian name, not what you may call them out of conventional language. Christ called them heretics and schismatics, but that would be wrong if they have a RIGHT to the Christian name. That’s the point you miss. You are decieved by your religion.
Now, here are Our Lord’s Word, on separated Christians, in the Poem. Recall He said in the Gospel that whoever is not against us is for us. Thus He commanded His Apostles to allow other Christians to exorcise and preach the Gospel. In the same way, He has given updated directions for our time here:
Our Lord Jesus: “«Fight the heresy itself with all your strength, but with every means try to convert the heretics to the Lord. Never get tired in looking for the sheep that have gone astray in order to take them back to the Fold. Pray, suffer, get people to pray, to suffer, go around begging the pure, the good, the generous believers for sacrifices and sufferings, because these are the means to convert your brothers.
The Passion of Christ continues in Christians. I have not excluded you from this great work, which is the Redemption of the world. You are all members of one single body. Help one another, and let those who are strong and healthy work for the weaker ones, and those who are united stretch out their hands and call their brothers who are far away.»…
«For so many reasons. They will still have My Name. And what is even more, they will take pride in that Name. They will work to make it known. They will help in making Me known as far as the extreme boundaries of the Earth. Let them do, because, I remind you, who is not against Me is for Me. But, poor children! their work will always be incomplete, their merits always imperfect. They cannot be in Me if they are separated from the Vine. Their works will always be incomplete.
You, I say you, referring to your future successors, must be where they are. Do not say pharisaically: “I am not going in order not to be contaminated.” Or lazily: “I am not going, because there already is who preaches the Lord.” Or timidly: “I am not going in order not to be driven away by them.” Go. I tell you: Go. To all peoples. As far as the boundaries of the world. So that all My Doctrine and My Only Church may be made known and souls may be able to become part of it.»
SPERAY REPLIES: Your quote does not help your position because if you have a right to the Christian name, then you can’t call them heretics. That’s the point you seem not to understand. A heretic is not a Christian as Pope Leo XIII and other popes have declared. Even St. Robert Bellarmine made that point: “A pope who is a manifest heretic automatically (per se) ceases to be pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church.
That’s from Vol 5, pg. 434. And then near the end of the same work, explains:
“3. To give spiritual masters and directors assistance in their ministry, by studying the different souls of the world in which I lived and the different methods used by Me to save them. Because it would be foolish to have only one method with all the souls. The way to attract to perfection a just person who spontaneously tends to it, is different from that to be used with a believer in sin, and from that to be used with a Gentile. You have many of them also among you, if you succeed in judging, as your Master did, as Gentiles the poor people who have replaced the true God with the idols of power and arrogance, or of gold, or of lust, or with the idol of the pride of their knowledge. And different is the method to be used to save modern proselytes, that is those who have accepted the Christian idea, but not the Christian citizenship, as they belong to separated Churches. No one is to be despised, and these lost sheep less than everyone. Love them and try to lead them back to the Only Fold, so that the desire of the Shepherd Jesus may be fulfilled.” The Lord calls them Christians.
I already showed in another thread, from Msgr. Fenton, that separated Christians, according to the majority of pre-Vatican II theologians, have enough salvific faith to be saved. Because one who explicitly knows the Trinity and Incarnation – and Vatican II adds, confesses Jesus as Lord and Savior – can be saved. The Church knows and is aware of this and She takes it into account here.
SPERAY REPLIES: WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT INTERNAL FORUM. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXTERNAL FORUM. PLEASE GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. I’VE EXPLAINED THIS SEVERAL TIMES WITH YOU IN THE PAST. THEY DON’T HAVE A “RIGHT” TO THE CHRISTIAN NAME. IT’S ABOUT RIGHTS. IT’S ABOUT EXTERNAL FORUM.
God Bless.
Steven,
The Catholic Church still teaches heresy, schism and apostasy are Wounds to Catholic Unity, and separate from Christ’s Body when fully culpable.
SPERAY REPLIES: I mention how they still use the words heresy, schism, and apostasy in the article. Did you read that part? Vatican 2 also teaches, “ALL who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body.” They are still part of Christ’s body, not separated. Did you catch that?
The Lord taught the same in Divine Mercy saying, “During My bitter Passion, they tore at My Body and Heart, that is, My Church. As they return to Unity with My Church, My wounds heal and in this way they alleviate My Passion”.
SPERAY REPLIES: I already tell you what is claimed in the Divine Mercy Diary, which is different from what Vat2 teaches. Did you read that part?
Here is the CCC:
“The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body – here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 – do not occur without human sin:
SPERAY REPLIES: NOTICE THAT IT DOESN’T SAY SEPARATE BUT WOUND. The Balamand statement and the joint declaration with the Lutherans say they are part of the Body of Christ. Did you read those points. Have you read how the Vat2 popes call the Eastern Orthodox religion part of the Church and called their Patriarches, “Pastors in the Church of Christ” “who guide the Church.”????? OF course they aren’t in perfect unity but they are still part of the Church of Christ according to your Vat2 popes. IT IS TOTALLY HERETICAL!!!!!
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271″
[comment: divisions arise through the sins of heresies, schisms, apostasies].
SPERAY REPLIES: OF COURSE, they admit division but they still claim that all are part of the Church of Christ, which proves my other point that they deny the oneness of the Church of Christ as the Catholic Church teaches it. They hold the Protestant view. Go back and read it in my past article. THANK YOU FOR PROVING ME RIGHT AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!!
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”272
[comment: those without the sin of separation, today’s Christians, are brothers].
SPERAY REPLIES: SEPARATION FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, NOT THE CHURCH OF CHRIST. Don’t you see the problem or are you just refusing to see it because it proves your religion wrong? I’ve been very clear about all of this and yet you still bring up the very points I’ve addressed hundreds of times.
[further, these are baptized as infants, and so are Christians right from birth].
SPERAY REPLIES: THEY DON’T HAVE A RIGHT TO THE NAME. Get this straight in your head. The internal forum is not necessarily the same as the external forum. Only Catholics have the right to the name because it’s an external forum issue.
[It is of these alone that Vatican II says, they are not guilty of the sin of heresy].
SPERAY REPLIES: With Vat2, the sin of heresy does NOT separate you from the Church of Christ. They are very clear about this point.
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth”273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.”274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”276
[Comment: elements of sanctifications and Truth are “calls to Catholic Unity”].
SPERAY REPLIES: You are only proving me right with each point you make. They admit to being outside the Catholic Church but not the Church of Christ, because they are 2 different things according to Vat2. HERESY!!!!!!
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
I trust this is clear. This is what I expressed but you said I’m rejecting Vatican II.
SPERAY REPLIES: Yes, you are rejecting it because you are not agreeing with what it says. You have interpreted it your way and not the way your popes have interpreted it.
Re: Right to the Christian name. Christians in good faith have it. Formal heretics do not have the right. The Church has the right to refer to heretics as heretics.
SPERAY REPLIES: WRONG!!!! They don’t have it because that is an internal forum issue. YOU DON’T KNOW WHO IS IN GOOD FAITH. That’s the whole point. That’s why only Catholics have a right to the name. A Catholic who internaly rejects God is not truly a Christian but he still has a right to the name. A non-Catholic who is good-willed maybe a true Christian in the internal forum, but has NO RIGHT to the name. The NAME is an external forum issue because it what we see and call. VERY SIMPLE!
The Church has the right to do as She pleases without being criticized by sedevacantists. The Church is guided by God’s Holy Spirit until the end of time.
SPERAY REPLIES: Your church is not the Catholic Church as I have proved again, thanks to you.
If God, through His Church, tells us most are Christians if in good faith, that is right. If God, through His Church, in another age, told us most were heretics, we should have listened to Her at that time too, trusting She was guided in that also
SPERAY REPLIES: Your religion doesn’t call anyone heretics but separated brethren because they have a RIGHT to the Christian name. Don’t you get it? How much clearer can they or I be? You just don’t want to see the obvious truth because it proves your religion false.
God bless.
Hi Steven. I have another question and I would appreciate if you would be able to answer it. Not strictly related, but I was reading Mediator Dei, and the CE, and my question is around these two paragraphs. Do you, as a sede, accept them?
“60. The use of the Latin language, customary in a considerable portion of the Church, is a manifest and beautiful sign of unity, as well as an effective antidote for any corruption of doctrinal truth. In spite of this, the use of the mother tongue in connection with several of the rites may be of much advantage to the people. But the Apostolic See alone is empowered to grant this permission. It is forbidden, therefore, to take any action whatever of this nature without having requested and obtained such consent, since the sacred liturgy, as We have said, is entirely subject to the discretion and approval of the Holy See.
61. The same reasoning holds in the case of some persons who are bent on the restoration of all the ancient rites and ceremonies indiscriminately. The liturgy of the early ages is most certainly worthy of all veneration. But ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity. The more recent liturgical rites likewise deserve reverence and respect. They, too, owe their inspiration to the Holy Spirit, who assists the Church in every age even to the consummation of the world.[52] They are equally the resources used by the majestic Spouse of Jesus Christ to promote and procure the sanctity of man.”
From: http://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei.html
Since the main reason sedes are sedes is probably the NOM even more than Vatican II, what are your thoughts on what Pope Ven. Pius XII said here? Thanks.
Discussion later. Hope you are having a joyful Easter Season with Our Lord.
I absolutely believe Pope Pius XII’s teachings. All of them. The problems with NOM is numerous, but the biggest issue is the narrative and consecration. It resembles Luther’s and Cramner’s masses anyway. That should bother you.
Pope St. Pius X Catechism
Preliminary Lesson
3 Q. Who is a true Christian?
A. A true Christian is he who is baptized, who believes and professes the Christian Doctrine, and obeys the lawful pastors of the Church.
7 Q. From whom are we to receive and learn Christian Doctrine?
A. We are to receive and learn Christian Doctrine from the Holy Catholic Church.
The Ninth Article of the Creed
The Church in General
1 Q. What does the Ninth article: The Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, teach us?
A. The Ninth Article of the Creed teaches us that Jesus Christ founded a visible society on earth called the Catholic Church, and that all those who belong to this Church are in communion with one another.
6 Q. Do these various parts of the Church constitute one sole Church?
A. Yes, these various parts of the Church constitute one sole Church and one sole body for they have the same Head, Jesus Christ, the same Spirit animating and uniting them, and the same end, eternal happiness, which some already enjoy and the rest hope for.
7 Q. To which part of the Church does this Ninth Article principally refer?
A. This Ninth Article of the Creed principally refers to the Church Militant, which is the Church we actually belong to.
The Communion of Saints
11 Q. Who are they who are outside the true Church?
A. Outside the true Church are: Infidels, Jews, heretics, apostates, schismatics, and the excommunicated.
12 Q. Who are infidels?
A. Infidels are those who have not been baptised and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting one true God, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, Mohammedans and the like.
13 Q. Who are the Jews?
A. The Jews are those who profess the Law of Moses; have not received baptism; and do not believe in Jesus Christ.
14 Q. Who are heretics?
A. Heretics are those of the baptised who obstinately refuse to believe some truth revealed by God and taught as an article of faith by the Catholic Church; for example, the Arians, the Nestorians and the various sects of Protestants.
15 Q. Who are apostates?
A. Apostates are those who abjure, or by some external act, deny the Catholic faith which they previously professed.
16 Q. Who are schismatics?
A. Schismatics are those Christians who, while not explicitly denying any dogma, yet voluntarily separate themselves from the Church of Jesus Christ, that is, from their lawful pastors.
17 Q. Who are the excommunicated?
A. The excommunicated are those who, because of grievous transgressions, are struck with excommunication by the Pope or their Bishop, and consequently are cut off as unworthy from the body of the Church, which, however, hopes for and desires their conversion.
Then you have Unitatis Redintegratio #3
“For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect…But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, (21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.”
How long will it take for people to wake up and smell not the coffee but the smoke of Satan within the Novus Ordo church?
When one gets baptized he receives a Catholic sacrament. For the non-Catholic
who gets baptized, there is the situation whereby they renounce the Catholic faith immediately afterwards thus, putting themselves outside the church. They may have gotten baptized but they are no longer Christian after that.
Recently I have heard about a “Fr.” Michel Rodrique. who is definately a Vatican II adherent. This man is touted as a prophet. I wonder if you have heard of him.? He has recently spoken about a series of prophetic events that are apocalyptic. I know that you also believe we are in the “end times” If you have read his prophecies do they correspond at all with your views on the end-times.
I believe we can safely say that he’s a false prophet after looking up what he’s said. He’s a promoter of the Vat2 sect, fake pope Francis, doubtful novus ordo priesthood, Divine Mercy Chaplet, 3 days of darkness (which I address here: https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/the-three-days-of-darkness-myth/
Rodrique holds that Satan will be cast to hell for 1000 years and then released for one final battle.
I believe Satan was cast into hell at the Cross and was released for his final battle back when Pope Leo XIII told us so in 1888.
He could be right about a nuclear war but we all could make that guess. The same goes with other things he’s said.
The Three Days of Darkness is Absolute Truth! It has been prophesied by numerous Saints and Mystics.
SPERAY REPLIES: It’s not true at all. I deal with it hear: https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/the-three-days-of-darkness-myth/
It just doesn’t fit with Sedevacantism, just like Our Lady of Fatima’s Promised Period of Peace.
SPERAY REPLIES: I already answered this and it doesn’t fit your position. And 3 days of darkness doesn’t fit Scripture.
The Dimonds claim we’ve already had it. That’s Crazy!
SPERAY REPLIES: No, its not crazy.
Abortion is one of the greatest destroyers of peace, and there have been like 2 billion babies killed by abortion in the last 50 odd years. No, we haven’t had Peace yet, but we assuredly will before the end.
SPERAY REPLIES: She didn’t mean peace in an absolute sense. That’s never happened at any point in history. OUr Lady was referring to Communism and Russia. It collapsed in Russia and they are going through a certain period of peace. That’s all. Very simple.
Sedevacantism is an objectively schismatic sect separated from the Catholic Church.
SPERAY REPLIES: Nope! The Vat2 religion is a subjective heretical and schismatic sect separtated from the Catholic Church.
Some of its members may not be guilty of formal schism, but that is true of any sect. It has no Apostolic Successors.
SPERAY REPLIES: You have no Apostolic Successors since all of your bishops are heretics!
Only the Catholic Apostolic Church does! Sede-vacantism leads to all Empty Sees. Totally heretical!!!
SPERAY REPLIES: Nope! I answered this in an article. It’s heretical to say an empty see causes that church to cease existing. Every See goes empty at some point.
If you can’t point to Bishops in office appointed by Pope Pius XII, and you can’t, you have no business claiming to be the Catholic and Apostolic Church!
SPERAY REPLIES: I don’t have to, but you can’t name a single bishop of yours that doesn’t hold to heresy. You are a heretic, too. YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS CLAIMING TO BE CATHOLIC!
It’s like falsely claiming to be a messiah. We are followers of the True Messiah, Jesus Christ. And followers of His True Church, the Catholic and Apostolic Church.
And when a Pope is Universally Accepted, it is de fide he is the True Pope. So teaches Van Noort, Fr. Connell and all the Catholic Theologians unanimously.
SPERAY REPLIES: I ANSWER THIS HERE: https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2019/02/21/the-universal-acceptance-argument-revisited/
Steven, you claim the Catholic Church today denies that mortal sins of schism, heresy, and apostasy still separate from the Church.
SPERAY REPLIES: LIAR! You sect denies it. I even provided proof.
All I can say is you’re wrong. The Church makes presumptions, because of increasing awareness of BOD, and similar developments of doctrine, that many separated Christians may be in good faith. It’s not about internal forum at all. It’s about Church law. The Church has relaxed Her former stringent legislation concerning separated Christians. It’s no longer true they are excommunicated around age 7 or 16.
SPERAY REPLIES: Nope! A presumption doesn’t give a right. Your explanation is heresy!
They are excommunicated only if they choose to be excommunicated, i.e. by knowingly committing a mortal sin of schism or heresy.
SPERAY REPLIES: WRONG! Your religion say ALL who have been justified are members of the Body and have a right to be called Christian. YOU DISAGREE WITH YOUR OWN MAGISTERIUM!
It’s the same for sedevacantists. Sedes are Catholic unless they formally commit schism, by formally separating from the Roman Pontiff, and the Bishops in communion with him. If sedes do that, having no Apostolicity, they are clearly schismatics.
SPERAY REPLIES: AND WHO ARE THEY? CAN YOU READ THEIR HEARTS? According to your religion, we ALL are members of the Body and have a right to be called Christian! YOU DISAGREE WITH YOUR MAGISTERIUM. YOU HATE WHAT IT SAYS AND SO YOU MAKE IT SAY SOMETHING IT DOESN’T SAY. LOL!
We don’t have to explain ourselves for following the Magisterium and Christ, any more than the early Christians had to explain themselves to the Jews. Christ’s Miracles proved He was God, and we have Christ’s Miracles, and we also alone have the Marks of the Church, including Catholicity and Apostolicity. It’s sede bishops who lack apostolicity and jurisdiction and must come home one day.
SPERAY REPLIES: WE ARE PART OF THE BODY ACCORDING TO YOUR RELIGION. NO ONE HAS TO COME HOME ACCORDING TO YOUR RELGION. YOUR POPES CONDEMN THE IDEA OF RETURNING BUT INSTEAD SAY THEY ARE “passing beyond the outdated ecclesiology of return to the Catholic Church.” YOUR RELIGION IS HERETICAL!!! IT’S FROM THE DEVIL. YOU ARE BLIND, XAVIER!!!!
Only those in good faith have a right to be called Christians.
SPERAY REPLIES: You have no idea who that is and your religion says that ALL OF THEM have a right to the name.
It is the Catholic Church, and not any private individual, that is authorized to judge good faith.
SPERAY REPLIES: YOUR RELIGION SAYS THAT ALL HAVE A RIGHT. You’re just making stuff up.
I will pray for you, and for all sedevacantists, to return home one day. God Bless. Sedes are not currently members of the Catholic Church. That is clear.
SPERAY REPLIES: YOU ARE NOT A CATHOLIC! YOUR RELIGION IS NOT CATHOLIC. YOUR POPES ARE NOT CATHOLIC. YOU ALL ARE ANTICATHOLIC AND I SUBMIT THAT YOU ALL ARE ANTICHRIST. YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT LIE ON MY BLOG.
St. Padre Pio prophesied about the Three Days of Darkness. It’s all true. There will be a Great Warning and Great Miracle, as foretold at Garabandal, which St. Pio also favored, and the Great Chastisement will perhaps be the Three Days of Darkness.
SPERAY REPLIES: Garabandal also prophesied 3 more popes until the end. Padre Pio also prophesied the Joey Lomangino would get his eyesight back before he died. Well, he died and never got his eyesight back. IT’S A BUNCH OF LIES. IT’S FALSE AND THANK YOU FOR PROVING ME RIGHT WITH YOUR LIES.
Scripture says the Jews will convert and there will be a period of blessings for the whole world. You deny Scripture and the Fathers if you deny it.
SPERAY REPLIES: You deny the Scripture because it says nothing of the 3 days of darkness. Many of the Jews have already converted with St. Vincent Ferrer.
“An impressive list of Fathers can be brought out who refer to this future conversion as a fact. Included are Tertullian, Origen, Saint Hilary, Saint Ambrose, Saint John Chrysostom, Saint Jerome, Saint Cyril of Alexandria, Saint Prosper of Aquitaine, Saint Gregory the Great, Saint Isidore, Saint Bede the Venerable, and Saint Anselm. Saint Cyril of Alexandria says this: “Towards the end of time, Our Lord Jesus Christ will effect the reconciliation of His former persecutor Israel with Himself. Everybody who knows Holy Scripture is aware that, in the course of time, this people will return to the love of Christ by the submission of faith…. Yes, one day, after the conversion of the Gentiles, Israel will be converted, and the Jews will be astonished at the treasure they will find in Christ” (Commentary on Genesis, Bk. 5).” https://catholicism.org/ad-rem-no-310.html
SPERAY REPLIES: I’ve already answer this many times. While all this may happen it may be that it already happened in St.Vincent’s time because the end times begin with Our Lord. The Fathers got many things wrong, too. It’s only when the Fathers are unanimous about something that we must accept it. Tertullian left the Faith. Jerome believed that no baptized person goes to eternal hell. Anselm and Chrysostom believed Our Lady sinned. None of them are specific when and how this all unfolds. SO DON’T GO TELLING ME WHAT TO BELIEVE WHEN YOU DON’T EVEN BELIEVE IN YOUR OWN MAGISTERIUM.
It’s ABSOLUTELY CRAZY to say there is currently Peace.
SPERAY REPLIES: WE ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE MOST PEACEFUL TIME IN HISTORY IF YOU’RE LOOKING AT MURDER FOR INSTANCE. Look it up. It’s statistically true. What’s crazy is that Bergoglio is the pope of the Catholic Church. That’s insanity or stupidity. Take your pick.
There is currently the worst genocide in history: Abortion.
SPERAY REPLIES: And with the evil of abortion, the world is still more peaceful by way of murder. Although this may about to change with the vaccines where billions could be murdered by it.
Btw, Communism only fell in Russia because of the Partial Consecration of March 25th, 1984, by the Pope and all the Catholic Bishops; because it was partial, Communism fell and there was a partial return to partial Christianity, namely Orthodox Christianity.
SPERAY REPLIES: Total BS. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The Complete Consecration will complete Russia’s future conversion to the Church. This has been prophesied and it will happen. Recent locutions confirm it.
SPERAY REPLIES: Your stupid religion says the Orthodox are part of the Church of Christ NOW. JP2 confirmed it in the Balamand statement. YOU NEED TO GET WITH YOUR PROGRAM. START FOLLOWING YOUR MAGISTERIUM STUPID.
Re: Apostolic Successors. So, if we don’t have them, and you don’t have them, who does? LOL. We would all be wasting our time if you were right. But the Truth is we alone have them, and you know it. Sedeism is not Apostolic!
SPERAY REPLIES: You don’t have them for sure. But you don’t even follow them anyway. Lol. YOU MAKE UP YOUR OWN THEOLOGY THAT YOUR POPES DON’T SAY.
You commit calumny and slander against so many good and faithful Catholic Bishops. Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Sarah, Bishop Athanasius, Bishop Vigano, are all good and faithful Catholic Bishops who belong to the Apostolic Hierarchy.
SPERAY REPLIES: Faithful? Ha. They are total heretics. All of them.
Where does SVism have any? LOLOL. It has none. Game Over. SVism finished.
SPERAY REPLIES: Our bishops are faithful You are the slanderer. YOU ARE FINISHED!
Universal Acceptance is not answered. Deny a Universally Accepted Pope, or calling him a heretic, is schismatic. Cardinal Billot explains this with the case of Savonarola, the schismatic sedevacantist, who called Pope Alexander VI false.
SPERAY REPLIES: Pope Julius II didn’t think Alexander was pope and tried to overthrow him as cardinal. Savonarola was venerated by St. Philip Neri, St. Catherine Ricci, St. John Fisher, and the great Pope St. Pius V, and Pope St. Pius X.
I have read the whole Catechism, and I can assure you I’m faithfully representing the Teaching of the Church today.
SPERAY REPLIES: NOPE! You only interpret it the way you want but not as your popes have. I once memorized your catechism. It’s just heretical and your popes are too.
There are two parts to it (1) Sin separates from the Church only when it is pertinacious and wilful (why do you think it is said “One must not charge with the sin of separation … those who at present are born into the separated Communities”) – because that sin would separate them if it was present.
SPERAY REPLIES: Separation from the Catholic Church, not separation from the Church of Christ. Your religion has heretically changed the teaching that the Church of Christ is not the same thing as the Catholic Church. Your popes tell us they are still part of the Church of Christ.
(2) A pastoral presumption of non-pertinacity is made in almost all cases, except truly exceptional ones who self-excommunicate. In other words, the Church doesn’t impose excommunication on other baptized Christians anymore. They can excommunicate themselves.
SPERAY REPLIES: You’re so lost it’s unbelievable.
Apply this to sedes: we generally treat sedes also like erring Christians. But if they are extremely anti-Catholic, we can treat them as formal schismatics also!
SPERAY REPLIES: NOPE! YOUR MAGISTERIUM SAYS ALL BAPTIZED ARE MEMBERS OF CHRIST’S BODY. SORRY BUT YOU REJECT YOUR MAGISTERIUM.
That’s the teaching of the Catholic Church: the same applies e.g. to Orthodox.
SPERAY REPLIES: YOUR RELIGION SAYS THAT FALSE RELIGION IS PART OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST IN THE BALAMAND STATEMENT.
St. Augustine made a presumption of good faith in a person he was speaking to, as I proved earlier, and he said such persons are not to be accounted heretics. In other words, those who err in good faith are rightly called CHRISTIANS.
SPERAY REPLIES: NOPE. YOU ARE WRONG.
We never call them Catholics. Only Catholic Christians are Catholic, i.e. who preserve the whole Faith, and remain in Communion with Peter’s Successor.
SPERAY REPLIES: Pope Leo XIII said only Catholics are Christian, but you may call Protestants Christian out of convential language.
What next? Oh yeah. LOL. Anti-Christ can come only AFTER the Period of Peace. The Period of Peace comes before the Final Anti-Christ.
SPERAY REPLIES: LOL. St. John said he was already in the world in his day. Antichrists are everywhere and have been since the beginning. The final Antichrist is dealt with here: https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2019/12/01/satan-antichrist-and-st-michael/
Where is the Conversion of the Jews in your Eschatology? It is absent!
SPERAY REPLIES: Nope. Many of them already converted. The end times began with Jesus according to Scripture.
All right and justice is on the side of the Roman Catholic Church here!
SPERAY REPLIES: YES, BUT YOU’RE NOT IT.
It is like a Court Case: “Steven Speray vs the Roman Catholic Church”.
SPERAY REPLIES: YOU MEAN COUNTERFEIT CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Roman Catholic Church accused of changing Her teaching. The Court’s Verdict: Not Guilty!
SPERAY REPLIES: So you’re the court now. Lol. You make the final say about your religion and you don’t even follow it. LOL.
God Bless.
One last thing: Sedes are not Roman, in addition to not being Apostolic!
Show us Roman Clergy – Clerics incardinated in the diocese of Rome, of whom the Cardinals are the Chief – who are sedes! If not, SVism is not Roman at all!
SPERAY REPLIES: BILLOT SAID THE COLLEGE OF CARDINALS CAN BECOME EXTINCT. THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED. HOWEVER, SVISM EXISTS IN ROME AND RIGHT NEXT TO THE VATICAN. WE ARE APOSTOLIC, YOU ARE NOT.
What is not Apostolic and not Roman cannot be Catholic! Q.E.D. LOL!
SPERAY REPLIES: THANK YOU FOR PROVING ONCE AGAIN THAT YOUR RELGION IS NOT ROMAN AND APOSTOLIC.
LOLOL. Roman Catholicism is Roman, Catholic and Apostolic. Sede-ism is neither! It has no Apostolic Successors. It can show no Cardinals who favor it!
SPERAY REPLIES: I already said the College of Cardinals have become extinct. You can’t show any cardinals who profess the Catholic faith. Lol.
St. Pio saw the Miracle before he died: See the testimony of the Father who said: “He replied: “Padre Pio saw [the Miracle] before his death. He told us himself”
SPERAY REPLIES: I don’t believe it.
https://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2014/06/the-death-of-joey-lomangino-blow-to.html I admit the death was surpising. I didn’t believe in Garabandal at the time. But apparently, all that was meant was that Joey would see the Miracle before he died.
SPERAY REPLIES: BS!!
Just like St. Padre Pio did. As for 3 Popes, that means, according to most Garabandal interpreters, the final events will take place during the time of Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis.
SPERAY REPLIES: So they aren’t true popes because they came after the 3 from that time. Not looking good for you. Lol.
Pope St. Pius X saw one of his Successors, of the same name, fleeing Rome, and another being killed. This is also found in the Fatima Third Secret put out by the Vatican in 2000.
SPERAY REPLIES: The Vatican lied about the 3rd Secret, which I’ve proven. Also, I happen to know what the 3rd secret actually is from Fr. Malachi Martin who revealed it just before he died. Don’t ask me, I’m not revealing it to you.
Pope Benedict XVI, Joseph Ratzinger, and the Pope, St. Pius X, Giuseppe or Joseph Sarto, have the same name. There may be some doubts regarding prophecies; it’s not de fide but we can be morally certain about it.
SPERAY REPLIES: You are deceived!
Re: Conversion of the Jews. It’s a fact. St. Cyril says everyone familiar with Scripture knows it; as St. Paul has taught it. If you deny it, you deny St. Paul. What has happened till now is only a foreshadowing. The complete conversion will happen before the end. That is at least proximate to Faith and definable.
SPERAY REPLIES: Who denies it? The end times begin with Jesus. There’s already been mass conversions of them. I’ve already told you this and that it may still happen in the future.
Here’s Scriptural references for 3 days of darkness: https://greatmonarch-angelicpontiffprophecies.blogspot.com/p/three-days-of-darkness-scripture.html
SPERAY REPLIES: I’ve already debunked it. Not going to happen.
After the 1984 Partial Consecration, Communism fell. This is a fact. I don’t agree with Unity Publishing on everything, but this article is worth reading: “After the 1984 Consecration
After the consecration a strange happening took place. An explosion in Siberia destroyed Russia’s largest ammunition base. This was the heart of its power base and no one knew why.
Five days later on Dec 19 Marshal Ustinov, the Minister of Defense, died or was killed
Three days later Marshal Sodolov, the 2ed Minister of Defense died
All in 9 months from the consecration.
In March of 1985 (one Year after consecration) President Chernenko died and Mikhial Gorbachev was made President. He was the First Baptized Christian President although still a communist. He instituted glassnoss and perestroika (freedom of the press and freedom of religion) This was the downfall of communism. 15 republics were freed from communism, and the Warsaw pact ended” http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/1984%20Consecration.htm
SPERAY REPLIES: Pope Pius XII already consecrated Russia in 1952. It all happened afterwards. So?
On Aug 17, 2014, Our Lady gave “Locutions to the world” (Originally published in a book you can find on Amazon, approved by Msgr. John Esseff) that explained the Fruit that would come from Russia’s Complete Consecration:
“No one will be able to stop this movement because their nation will have been specifically consecrated by the Holy Father and by all the Catholic bishops of the world. I have put my seal of promise upon this act of Consecration, and the graces flowing from it will not be turned back. Even though the most frightful opposition will arise, the stirring in the hearts of the Russian people for this new light will not be turned back.” http://locutions-forever.org/locutions/show/2014-08-17/2-the-stirring-in-russian-hearts
SPERAY REPLIES: So?
Steven, I can easily disprove what you are saying from Canon Law. Have you read it?
SPERAY REPLIES: Many times.
“The 1983 Code of Canon Law, repeating the sanctions of the earlier 1917 Code, states,
c. 1364
1. With due regard for can. 194, part 1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication and if a cleric, he can also be punished by the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, part 1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.
2. If long lasting contumacy or the seriousness of scandal warrants it, other penalties can be added including dismissal from the clerical state.
This canon is saying that once a person willingly repudiates Christ, embraces a heresy, knowing it to be contrary to divine and Catholic faith, or refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff (or communion with the members of the Church subject to him), by virtue of the law itself they are automatically excommunicated. No ecclesiastical act is necessary and no public notice.
However, to incur this latae sententia excommunication one must satisfy the general conditions for canonical culpability set out in the Code. For example, a person who has not been diligent (prudently weighing the issues involved) in their action is not punished.” https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=3444
SPERAY REPLIES: EXCOMMNICATION FROM YOUR RELIGION, NOT THE CHURCH OF CHRIST! They can’t apply the words heretic, schismatic, or apostate because Vat2 already declared that all have a right to the Christian name. So thank you for showing how stupid your religion is again.
This is already long, so I’m responding in a subsequent comment for other things.
I trust that already answers the objections. (1) Non-Catholic Christians leave the Church they entered in Baptism only if (i) they are excommunicated. (ii) they commit the sins of heresy or schism. (2) They are not excommunicated today, and some, like the Lutherans and the Orthodox, have been absolved even of heresy, by Joint Declarations with the Magisterium. Lutherans have admitted that good works produce heavenly rewards or merits, and thus there is growth in grace, or sanctification post justification, which is Catholic and orthodox. Orthodox have admitted the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, which again is Catholic and orthodox. Those who hold this are not even “material heretics”. They are simply Christians separated from full communion.
SPERAY REPLIES: Your religion say ALL are incorporated in Christ’s Body and have a right to be called Christian. I KNOW YOU HATE WHAT VAT2 TEACHES AND HAVE TO TWIST IT TO MAKE IT WORK FOR YOU. IT’S OVER. GIVE IT UP! YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU CAN’T GET AROUND IT.
Here is Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, and the CDF on “Subsistit”.
SPERAY REPLIES: In an interview with the German newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine, Ratzinger, stated:
“When the Council Fathers replace the word ‘is,’ used by Pius XII, with the word ‘subsistit,’ they did so for a very precise reason. The concept expressed by ‘is’ (to be) is far broader than that expressed by ‘to subsist.’ ‘To subsist’ is a very precise way of being, that is, to be as a subject, which exists in itself. Thus the Council Fathers meant to say: the being of the Church as such extends much further than the Roman Catholic Church, but within the latter it acquires, in an incomparable way, the character of a true and proper subject.”
“”As is well known this famous expression “subsistit in” was subsequently the object of many and contradictory interpretations. The notion became quite widespread that the Council had not wanted to adopt as its own the traditional statement according in which the Church of Christ is (est) the Catholic Church — as was stated in the preparatory schema2 — so as to be able to say that the Church of Christ subsists also in Christian communities separated from Rome.
In reality, however, an analysis of the Council proceedings leads to the conclusion that”[t]he phrase subsistit in is intended not only to reconfirm the meaning of the term est, that is, the identity of the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church. Above all, it reaffirms that the Church of Christ, imbued with the fullness of all the means instituted by Christ, perdures (continues, remains) forever in the Catholic Church”.3
SPERAY REPLIES: LOL! Subsists automatically denotes two different things. THEY ARE SUCH LIARS! Vat2 even explain what they meant and it is two different things. So it’s over for them.
This meaning of the term subsistit coincides with the common language of Western culture and is consistent with classical philosophical language from Aristotle to St. Thomas; that which exists in itself and not in something else is said to subsist.4
“Subsisting is a special case of being. It is being in the form of a subject standing on its own. This is the issue here. The Council wants to tell us that the Church of Jesus Christ as a concrete subject in the present world can be encountered in the Catholic Church. This can occur only once and the notion that subsistit could be multiplied misses precisely what was intended. With the word subsistit, the Council wanted to express the singularity and non-multiplicability of the Catholic Church”.5
In this Document of the Council, the assertion of the subsistence of the Church of Christ in the Catholic Church is followed by the famous phrase about the presence of many elements of sanctification and truth, belonging to the Church, outside her visible structure.
SPERAY REPLIES: TOTAL BS! In a Jan. 22, 2013 L’Osservatore Romano article titled: The divisions among Christians disfigure the face of the Church, it was written that Benedict XVI said, “One of the gravest sins ‘that disfigure the Church’s face’ is the sin ‘against her visible unity’, and, in particular, ‘the historical divisions which separated Christians and which have not yet been surmounted’”.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, already in 1985, in the face of erroneous interpretations, made the following statement in this regard: ” . . . the Council chose the word subsistit precisely in order to make it clear that there exists a single ‘subsistence’ of the true Church, while outside her visible structure only elementa ecclesiae exist, which — as elements of the Church — tend and lead toward the Catholic Church”.6
SPERAY REPLIES: THEY WOULD SAY ANYTHING THAT WOULD KEEP STUPID PEOPLE INLINE. The Balamand Statement is clear what they meant. Non-catholic religions make up the Church of Christ. The Vat2 popes have repeatedly told us that that the Church of Christ is divided in faith. They hold the oneness mark like the Protestants.
More recently, the same Congregation declared: “The interpretation of those who would derive from the formula subsistit in the thesis that the one Church of Christ could subsist also in non-Catholic churches and ecclesial communities is therefore contrary to the authentic meaning of Lumen Gentium”.7
SPERAY REPLIES: THEY ARE CONDEMNING THIER OWN POPES THEN. LOL.
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/christs-church-subsists-in-the-catholic-church-3171
It’s therefore incorrect, according to the Magisterium itself, to say the Church of Christ and the Catholic Church are two different things. The Church of Christ Subsists in the Catholic Church means the Church of Christ is a Subsistence or can be encountered as a Concrete Substance in the Catholic, Simple.
SPERAY REPLIES: WE ALREADY KNOW THE CHURCH OF CHRIST AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ARE THE SAME THING. YOUR POPES SAY THE CHURCH IS DIVIDED IN FAITH. THEY SAY IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS. MY ARTICLE SHOWS THAT. SEE THE JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION
by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church
Nov. 1, 1999 44. We give thanks to the Lord for this decisive step forward on the way to overcoming the division of the church. We ask the Holy Spirit to lead us further toward that visible unity which is Christ’s will.
Comment: It’s saying Lutherans are part of the Body of Christ the Church, and that the Church of Christ is not even visibly unified. This is a blatant rejection of the Dogma. John Paul II approved and blessed the Joint Declaration.
Let me ask you two final personal questions, Steven, which you can answer if you wish. (1) Do you wear the Scapular, and pray the Rosary daily
SPERAY REPLIES: Yes, I wear two Scapulars and pray the Rosary with the family every single day and have been doing so for over 25 years.
(2) Supposing you were convinced SVism was false, would you cease to be a Christian, or would you return to Communion with Rome?
SPERAY REPLIES: That’s like asking if you were convinced that Jesus is not God….
Jesus is God and Svism is not false. Rome is lost. I would never give up on Christ and I would never be united to apostate Rome.
Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, The Present Crisis of the Holy See, 1861, London: Burns and Lambert, pp. 88-90
“The apostasy of the city of Rome from the vicar of Christ and its destruction by Antichrist may be thoughts so new to many Catholics, that I think it well to recite the text of theologians of greatest repute. First Malvenda, who writes expressly on the subject, states as the opinion of Ribera, Gaspar Melus, Biegas, Suarrez, Bellarmine and Bosius that Rome shall apostatize from the faith, drive away the Vicar of Christ and return to its ancient paganism. …Then the Church shall be scattered, driven into the wilderness, and shall be for a time, as it was in the beginning, invisible hidden in catacombs, in dens, in mountains, in lurking places; for a time it shall be swept, as it were from the face of the earth. Such is the universal testimony of the Fathers of the early Church.”
God Bless.