EXCERPTS FROM MY BOOK, “Baptism of Desire or Blood (A Defense in Brief Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam)”.
The Catholic Church teaches that all men must absolutely be inside the Church to be saved, no exceptions whatsoever.
In extraordinary cases, the doctrine of Baptism of Desire ‘BOD’ and/or Blood ‘BOB’, explains how it is possible to enter the Church without the actual Sacrament of Baptism.
The doctrine of Baptism of Desire says that at death, provided there is faith, desire (implicit or explicit) to be baptized, and perfect contrition for one’s sins, one will be brought into the Church apart from the actual Sacrament of Water Baptism.
Baptism of Blood is the doctrine that refers to those who couldn’t receive the Sacrament but did shed their blood for Christ.
Some BOD/BOB defenders might say that objectively one can be outside the Church but subjectively inside the Church. They mean that in the external forum, there are those who appear to be outside the Church, but aren’t really. Catholics can find themselves through ignorance practicing a Protestant religion. This is true, but some mean that subjectively a Protestant is really a Catholic because of a false understanding of what the Church is, or that a non-baptized person can be inside the Church subjectively. This approach runs contrary to the Dogma of EENS and there would be no need of the doctrine of Baptism of Desire or Blood. BOD/BOB doesn’t really apply to the baptized anyway, since the Sacrament of Baptism has already been administered to such persons.
Therefore, rather than running contrary to the Dogma “Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus,” this doctrine of BOD/BOB, when understood correctly, explains how the dogma applies in the extraordinary cases and conditions.
It is false to say that outside the Church there is salvation in extraordinary conditions. This explanation goes against the dogma EENS. If someone asks, can a Jew, Muslim, or Protestant be saved? The answer is simply no, not as a Jew, Muslim, or Protestant, but they can be saved as Catholics.
It would be incorrect to say that they were saved in their religion or by their religion, for it is neither.
Again, it is not how salvation might be attained outside the Church because there is no salvation outside the Church. Baptism of Desire/Blood is the explanation how those outside the Church get inside the Church immediately before or at death.
Baptism of Desire and Blood is not a defined dogma. The First Vatican Council intended to define it but was cut short because of the Franco-Prussian war. Rather, it is a doctrine given the name of Baptism of Desire/Blood to explain the application of the dogma EENS under the extraordinary conditions.
Baptism of Desire means that it is only a possibility that one outside the Church can get inside, not that it has ever happened since there is no saint from Baptism of Desire, nor is it even likely for it would seem to be a very rare event.
However, there are recognized saints from Baptism of Blood.
This not only proves that it is possible to be saved apart from the Sacrament, but you must believe it since the Church is infallible in recognizing saints.
The case of implicit desire means one who is invincibly ignorant is not saved by his invincible ignorance. Take careful note of this. Invincible ignorance does not save. It is the worst kind of handicap.
Baptism of Desire means God infuses the Catholic Faith immediately before or at death, wherefore one is no longer ignorant.
This invincible ignorance must be about the Catholic Faith for those who are not ill-willed for as St. Paul says in II Corinthians 4:3: “And if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world (Satan) hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.”
There is no such thing as an invincibly ignorant atheist as St. Paul says in Romans 1:18-20: “For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it to them. For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his external power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.”
God can save anyone that pleases Him (only He knows). It is possible. See Mark 10:26-27, Luke 18:27
BOD and BOB are not sacraments.
The designated terms (Baptism of Desire/Blood) are about what constitutes the possible exceptions to the Sacrament. It must necessarily fall under at the very least the universal and ordinary teaching of the Church as it is referenced at the Council of Trent.
IN MY BOOK, I COVER 33 OBJECTIONS AGAINST THE DOCTRINE.
Monday, November 14, 2011
IS THE SSPX MASS VALID? YES, BUT THE PRIEST COULD BE IN MORTAL SIN FOR REJECTING A DEFINED DOGMA WITH HIS ‘EXCEPTIONS’
There are conditions for offering the Tridentine Rite Mass. Are they being met by the SSPX ?
The Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) priests offer the Tridentine Rite Mass and consider the baptism of desire and those saved in invincible ignorance as exceptions to the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They are in the same position as the priests who offer the Novus Ordo Mass in different languages.
However the SSPX claims on its website that they affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They also imply that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us and so it is an exception to the dogmatic teaching. This is a denial, a rejection of the dogma.
The baptism of desire is always implicit. It would have to be explicitly known to conflict with the dogma outside the church there is no salvation. Yet this is implied in the articles by Fr.Francois Laisney and Fr.Peter Scott. Since these cases are hidden they are really not exceptions. There are no defacto exceptions. If we consider them as exceptions it would mean we can meet non Catholics on the street saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. You could say to such a person whom you meet, “ Hi John, I’m glad you were saved with the baptism of desire you arose from the dead and returned to live with us once again. I heard the same thing happened with your sister Francesca”.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/catholics-are-fighting-it-out-on.html#links
Invincible Ignorance and the baptism of desire are not exceptions to the dogma but explicitly known invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions.So one has to imply that the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are explicitly known. We have to assume that we can meet someone on the street saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. Only because it is ‘explicitly known’ is it an exception to the dogma.If it was implicit it would not be an exception. The SSPX website says Fr.Leonard Feeney was wrong since those saved with the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma.
Fr. Leonard Feeney was correct in saying there were no exceptions to the dogmatic teaching. The dogma does not mention exceptions. Neither does Vatican Council II refer to explicit, visible cases of those saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire. It refers to implicit cases known to God only.
There are conditions for offering the Tridentine Rite Mass. Are they being met by the SSPX ?
-Lionel Andrades
NO TRIDENTINE RITE MASS WITHOUT EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-tridentine-rite-mass-without-extra.html#links
PRIESTS WHO OFFER TRIDENTINE-RITE AND NOVUS ORDO MASS AGREE THAT WE DO NOT DEFACTO KNOW A SINGLE CASE OF THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE: WE HAVE UNITY ON OUTSIDE THE CHURCH NO SALVATION
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/priests-who-offer-tridentine-rite-and.html#links
FR.FRANCOIS LAISNEY OF THE SOCIETY OF ST.PIUS X SAYS THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS HAS EXCEPTIONS. THIS IS HERESY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/frfrancois-laisney-of-society-of-stpius.html#links
SOCIETY OF ST.PIUS X CAUSING CONFUSION ON ECUMENISM
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/society-of-stpius-x-causing-confusion.html
NORMS FOR THE TRIDENTINE RITE MASS VIOLATED ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/norms-for-tridentine-rite-mass-violated.html
NON CATHOLICS CAN BE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE, BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS- Daphne McLeod, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, England
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/non-catholics-can-be-saved-in.html
INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE ARE NOT EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA BUT A BOOK SOLD BY THE SSPX SAYS THEY ARE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/invincible-ignorance-and-baptism-of.html#links
FR. PETER SCOTT, SSPX NEED TO ISSUE A CLARIFICATION: HOW CAN THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE BE EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/fr-peter-scott-sspx-need-to-issue.html
BISHOP ROBERT FINN, BISHOP RAYMOND BOLAND AFFIRM THE ‘RIGORIST INTERPRETATION’ OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS : NO DENIAL FROM KANSAS CITY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/bishop-robert-finn-bishop-raymond.html#links
BISHOP EMERITUS RAYMOND J.BOLAND OF KANSAS CITY CORRESPONDS WITH FR.PETER SCOTT OF THE SSPX ON THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/bishop-emeritus-raymond-jboland-of.html#links
SSPX ,CATHOLIC TRADITIONALISTS ARE ANATHEMA ACCORDING TO THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/sspx-catholic-traditionalists-are.html
DAPHNE MCLEOD COMMENT A BOMBSHELL FOR ENGLISH BISHOPS?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/daphne-mcleod-comment-bombshell-for.html
ASSISI INTERFAITH MEETING OCT.27: OLD PROBLEM AMONG TRADITIONALISTS SURFACE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/assisi-interfaith-meeting-oct27-old.html
SSPX CONSIDERS THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE AS DE FACTO KNOWN TO US : DISCERNING LIBERALS MUST BE LAUGHING UP THEIR SLEEVE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/sspx-considers-those-saved-in_24.html
SSPX CONSIDERS THOSE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE AS EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS THIS IS HERESY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/sspx-considers-those-saved-in.html
SSPX IN HERESY CALLS ATTENTION TO HERESY AT ASSISI
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/sspx-in-heresy-calls-attention-to.html#links
SSPX CLARIFY FOR US WHAT IS YOUR DOCTRINAL POSITION ON THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/sspx-clarify-for-us-what-is-your.html#links
ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE CALLED “TO PREACH” THE RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF “EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS”
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/archbishop-marcel-lefebvre-called-to.html#links
SSPX CLARIFY FOR US WHAT IS YOUR DOCTRINAL POSITION ON THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/sspx-clarify-for-us-what-is-your.html#links
Michael Voris Hits the Jackpot…that is, “the dogma”- Brother André Marie MICM :RealCatholicTV affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/09/michael-voris-hits-jackpotthat-is-dogma.html#links
CATHOLIC LAY PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITA EUROPA DI ROMA AFFIRMS DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/catholic-lay-professor-at-universita.html
LEGIONARY OF CHRIST PRIEST FR.RAFAEL PASCUAL AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/legionary-of-christ-priest-frrafael.html
FR.TULLIO ROTONDO AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/frtullio-rotondo-affirms-cantate-domino.html#links
CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS IS DE FIDE AND NOT CONTRADICTED BY VATICAN COUNCIL II- Fr. Nevus Marcello O.P
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/cantate-domino-council-of-florence-on.html
BRAZILIAN PRIEST SAYS VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/brazilian-priest-says-vatican-council.html#links
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CHRISTIAN UNITY INDICATES POPES, SAINTS IN HERESY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/pontifical-council-for-christian-unity.html
Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity claims Pope Pius XII condemned the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus :suggests those in invincible ignorance are explicitly known to us and so contradicts the dogma
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/pontifical-council-for-promoting.html
Vatican website for clergy promotes ‘theology of religions’, Kung and Knitter : claims Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for the same interpretation of the dogma as the popes and saints
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/vatican-webste-for-clergy-promotes.html
CATHOLIC PRIESTS IN ROME AGREE WITH FR.LEONARD FEENEY: THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE THAT WE CAN KNOW OF
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/catholic-priests-in-rome-agree-with.html#links
CATHOLIC HERALD, U.K: IS IT STILL CATHOLIC?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/catholic-herald-uk-is-it-still-catholic.html
ANGELICUM UNIVERSITY IS CHURNING OUT THEOLOGY DEGREES FOR THOSE WHO SAY FR.LEONARD FEENEY WAS EXCOMMUNICATED FOR REJECTING THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/angelicum-university-is-churning-out.html
SSPX BISHOPS, PRIESTS REJECT EX CATHEDRA DOGMA OFFICIALY, OFFER MASS: NO CONTRADICTION FROM BISHOP BERNARD FELLAY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/06/sspx-bishops-priests-reject-ex-cathedra.html
BISHOP BERNARD FELLAY AFFIRMS RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS : CONFUSION ON SEDEVANTIST WEBSITE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/bishop-bernard-fellay-affirms-rigorist.html
CDF, VATICAN, SSPX, MOST HOLY FAMILY MONASTERY IN TENSION OVER STRAWMAN
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/cdf-vatican-sspx-most-holy-family.html
ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE HAD AFFIRMED THE RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/archbishop-marcel-lefebvre-had-affirmed.html
SSPX SUPERIOR CONFIRMS HERESY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/09/tridentine-rite-priests-in-rome-using.html
Tuesday, November 22, 2011
CATHOLIC BISHOPS CONFERENCE OF ENGLAND AND WALES SAYS THOSE SAVED WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE, INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE VISIBLE TO US
Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated it is suggested for repeating the same teaching of the popes, Councils, saints and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus thrice-defined.
The Bishops Conference of England and Wales has placed the book Muslims Ask, Christian answer in the section Resources, on its website. (Dialogue With Other Religions/Committee for Relations with other Other Religions). This book by the Jesuit Christian Troll interprets Vatican Council II (LG 16) as referring to cases of invincible ignorance being explicit and known to us. LG 16 contradicts the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/bishops-conference-of-england-and-wales.html
It means every one needs to enter the Church for salvation in the present times but there could be exceptions like those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16). Cases of those saved in invincible ignorance it is assumed are visible to us and so they are an exception to the dogma.The dogma indicates everyone needs to be an explicit, visible member of the church to go to Heaven.
If those saved in invincible ignorance were implicit for the English bishops it would not contradict the dogma.It would not be an exception. Since it is allegedly explicitly known, it is an exception to the dogma.
So in inter religious dialogue it is assumed by the CBCEW that those saved in invincible ignorance are known to us in the present times.Those who have not had the Gsopel preached to them through no fault of their own and are saved are known to us in the present time ?!
In another report on the website of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales titled Catholics and Other Faiths the error is repeated. Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark who is the Chair of the Committe for Relations with Other Religions states that the ‘seeds of the Word’ are present in other religions(1).Theoretically, as a possibility this is acceptable. However the bishop is implying that we know of particular cases so every non Catholic with no exception does not have to enter the Church for salvation.He is implying that this is an exception to the dogma.This is the rejection of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II (Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7).
Similarly the Vocation Director of Southwark, England Fr. Stephen Langley has said that candidates with a religious vocation to the diocese would have to accept the doctrine extra ecclesiam nulla salus but the doctrine should not be interpreted in ‘the narrow Feenyite sense’.
Young Catholics in England would have to say that everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation in the present times but there could be defacto exceptions like those saved with the baptism of desire. The baptism of desire is assumed to be visible and so is an exception to the dogma.The dogma indicates everyone needs to be an explicit, visible member of the church to go to Heaven.
If the baptism of desire was implicit for candidates it would not contradict the dogma, it would not be an exception. Since it is allegedly explicitly known, it is an exception to the dogma. Candidates with a religious vocation would be accepted who presumably could ‘spot’ these rare exceptional cases.Those who cannot do so will not be able to priests and nuns.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/vocation-director-in-southwarkengland.html
The Vocation Director at Southwark also has implied that the Catholic Church has condemned the ‘narrow Feenyite sense’. However there is no ‘condemnation’ mentioned in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office referred to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible statement’. The dogma like the popes, Church Councils and saints indicate that all non Catholics in Boston,USA need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid the fires of Hell. This was exactly the teaching of Fr. Leonard Feeney who was not excommunicated for heresy but for disobedience. The excommunication was lifted by the Church without him having to recant.
So candidates with a religious vocation in England would have to accept also that Fr. Leonard Feeney was ‘condemned’ for holding the same view as the popes, including Pope Pius XII, who referred to ‘the dogma’, the saints and the dogma itself.
This is the teaching of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales in inter faith dialogue, for candidates with religious vocations and at the Catholic seminaries in Rome like the English and Beda College.
This new visible baptism of desire doctrine contradicts magisterial documents.It is also irrational. (a) No one knows of a particular case of someone being saved with the baptism of desire and (b) Fr.Leonard Feeney was not excommunicated for repeating the same teaching of the popes, Councils, saints and the thrice-defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
As Catholics we believe that Christ lived, died and rose from the dead for all people and thatGod’s plan of love embraces the whole of creation. We can joyfully accept ,as was recognized by the Fathers of the Church,that other religions contain elements of truth that we find in Christ.The Fathers of the Church called these elements “seeds of the Word”.The Vatican Council II attributed the positive values present in other religious traditons to the actibe presence of God through through his Word,pointing also to the universal action of the Spirit “at work in the world before Christ was glorified”.(Ad Gentes n.4).-Catholics and Other Faiths report on the website of the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales
BISHOPS CONFERENCE OF ENGLAND AND WALES SAYS LUMEN GENTIUM 16 REFERS TO EXPLICITLY KNOWN CASES OF NON CATHOLIC SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/bishops-conference-of-england-and-wales.html
Archbishop Emeritus Kevin McDonald of Southwark implies the ‘seeds of the Word’ in other religions is the ordinary means of salvation and these exceptions are explicitly known
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/archbishop-emeritus-kevin-mcdonald-of.html
NON CATHOLICS CAN BE SAVED IN INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE, BAPTISM OF DESIRE AND IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS- Daphne McLeod, Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, England
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/10/non-catholics-can-be-saved-in.html
CATHOLIC HERALD, DAILY TELEGRAPH CENSORSHIP OF THE DOGMA CONTROVERSY: NO ADS ACCEPTED
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/catholic-herald-daily-telegraph.html
Thursday, November 24, 2011
ECCLESSIOLOGY OF ENGLISH BISHOPS HIT BY TWO ERRORS 1) VISIBLE BAPTISM OF DESIRE 2) FR.LEONARD FEENEY EXCOMMUNICATED FOR THE SAME VIEW AS POPES, SAINTS AND DOGMA OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION
English bishops use an interpretation of Magisterial texts which contradict the Principle of Non Contradiction as taught to Catholic seminarians.
It is assumed by the bishops that those saved among Christians and non Christians, in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire, a good conscience, with ‘the seeds of the Word’ or in imperfect communion with the Church, are known to us in the present times and this is the ordinary way of salvation. They imply that this is an exception to the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation. So Protestants just have to believe in Jesus and they are saved in their religion through this ordinary means.This is a rejection of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II (Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7).Vatican Council II indicates that the ordinary means of salvation is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (LG 14, AG 7).
It is contradictory for the bishops to say:
De facto every one needs to be an explicit, visible member of the Church of salvation and defacto non Catholics in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire can be saved without the baptism of water.
It is not contradictory when they say:
Defacto every one with no exception needs to enter the Church as taught by ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible statement’.(Letter of the Holy Office 1949 during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII)
De jure a person can be saved with the baptism of desire.(Letter of the Holy Office 1949 during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII)
It is contradictory when they believe:
De facto all people need to enter the Catholic Church with the baptism of water and Catholic Faith for salvation.(Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium 14, Ad Gentes 7).
De facto some people can be saved in invincible ignorance.(Lumen Gentium 16).
It is not contradictory when they believe:
De facto all people need to enter the Catholic Church with the baptism of water and Catholic Faith for salvation. (Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium 14,Ad Gentes7).
De jure some people can be saved in invincible ignorance.(Lumen Gentium 16).
English bishops use an interpretation of Magisterial texts which contradict the Principle of Non Contradiction as taught to Catholic seminarians.It is contradictory to common sense , even a lay man can notice, to imply that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are de facto known to us
Due to the contradiction in the interpretation young candidates with a religious vocation in England have to say everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation in the present times but there could be defacto exceptions like those saved with the baptism of desire. The baptism of desire is assumed to be visible and so is an exception to the dogma.The dogma indicates everyone needs to be an explicit, visible member of the church to go to Heaven.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/vocation-director-in-southwarkengland.html
If the baptism of desire was implicit for candidates it would not contradict the dogma, it would not be an exception. Since it is allegedly explicitly known, it is an exception to the dogma. It is an error for the bishops to interpret those saved with the baptism of desire as being de facto known to us.
Candidates with a religious vocation in England would also have to accept that Fr. Leonard Feeney was ‘condemned’ for holding the same view as the popes, including Pope Pius XII, who referred to ‘the dogma’, the saints and the dogma itself. Since the bishops assume that Fr.Leonard Feeney said that there are no exceptions to the dogma and that the baptism of desire etc are not exceptions. For the bishops the baptism of desire is defacto and explicitly known to us and so Fr.Leonard Feeney was wrong. So were the popes and saints.
(a) No one knows of a particular case of someone being saved with the baptism of desire even though it is being assumed as being visible (b) Fr.Leonard Feeney was not excommunicated for repeating the same teaching of the popes, Councils, saints and the thrice-defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They were all saying that de facto every adult needs Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. They did not consider the baptism of desire as explicit but knew that it was always implicit.
They imply that Vatican Council II has changed our concept of Church since those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) etc are visible and de facto known to us in the present times.
-Lionel Andrades
CATHOLIC BISHOPS CONFERENCE OF ENGLAND AND WALES SAYS THOSE SAVED WITH THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE, INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE ARE VISIBLE TO US
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/catholic-bishops-conference-of-england.html
ECUMENISM OF THE ENGLISH BISHOPS CONTRARY TO VATICAN COUNCIL II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/11/ecumenism-of-english-bishops-contrary.html#links
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